Where Namibians Meet
User Name: Password: Forgot Password?

 
 Advanced Search
Go Back   The Shebeen > The People's Forums > News & Politics


View Poll Results: Do you believe the second round of the March harmonised elections in Zimbabwe were free and fair?
Yes, they were 31 14.22%
No, they were not 123 56.42%
I'm not sure 64 29.36%
Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack (4) Thread Tools
  #81  
Old 29th May 2008, 04:36 PM
Comrade_007's Avatar
Comrade_007 Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Windhoek
Posts: 467
Thanks: 442
Thanked 578 Times in 239 Posts
In Agreement: 75
In Agreement With 185 Times in 102 Posts
Credits: 28,591
Angry re: The Zimbabwe Situation

Sponsor's Message
There is yet another chance that Tsvangirai may prevail in the upcoming elections and Mugabe forced to quit after all. But what has ZANU and Mugabe left for him and his Government when he comes into office? A totally shattered, ruined, demoralised, depressed, bankrupt, destroyed, traumatised, brutalised, isolated nation - that's what.

It will take generations to rebuild the country to its former glory.

It must be bitter for anyone who wants to see the people of Zimbabwe live better lives and recover to see the destruction wrought on the country by the ZANU-PF elite. Is this intentional after all? A strategy? At the moment the Government is printing and spending money so fast it is dizzying. Do they do this in the full knowledge that there will be only bones left to pick when Tsvangirai comes to office?

Can the end-game really be that cyncial?
__________________
"Nothing is complete and thus nothing is exempt from criticism." - James Luther Adams:

Last edited by Comrade_007; 29th May 2008 at 05:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Comrade_007 For This Useful Post:
juikk (31st May 2008), Shebeen (29th May 2008)
The Following 2 Users Agrees With Comrade_007 On This Post:
juikk (31st May 2008), Oneword (29th May 2008)
  #82  
Old 29th May 2008, 06:43 PM
Oneword's Avatar
Oneword Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bensalem
Posts: 1,367
Thanks: 601
Thanked 1,441 Times in 683 Posts
Images: 338
Blog Entries: 15
In Agreement: 276
In Agreement With 248 Times in 183 Posts
Credits: 479,658
Default re: The Zimbabwe Situation

Quote:
Do they do this in the full knowledge that there will be only bones left to pick when Tsvangirai comes to office?
YES! They do! They don't care for the country; only for themselves!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Oneword For This Useful Post:
Comrade_007 (5th June 2008), juikk (31st May 2008), Shebeen (29th May 2008)
The Following User Agrees With Oneword On This Post:
juikk (31st May 2008)
  #83  
Old 31st May 2008, 10:31 AM
Pietro's Avatar
Pietro Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Katutura
Posts: 573
Thanks: 325
Thanked 480 Times in 265 Posts
Images: 2
In Agreement: 141
In Agreement With 81 Times in 62 Posts
Credits: 16,585
Default Re: And here we go again ....

Looks like (reading the news) that if 40-years younger Gracie - the shopping queen - says "STAY!" our little, old, lecherous and p-whipped Bob does everything possible to stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pietro For This Useful Post:
Comrade_007 (5th June 2008), juikk (31st May 2008), Shebeen (19th June 2008)
  #84  
Old 1st June 2008, 01:14 PM
Oneword's Avatar
Oneword Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bensalem
Posts: 1,367
Thanks: 601
Thanked 1,441 Times in 683 Posts
Images: 338
Blog Entries: 15
In Agreement: 276
In Agreement With 248 Times in 183 Posts
Credits: 479,658
Default Tsvangirai’s explosive letter to Mbeki

(As reported in the SA Sunday Times today, Sunday, 1 June 2008)


Quote:
‘If you go on like this, there will be no country left’

‘Your government even played a role in Zimbabwean government procurement of weapons of repression’

Zimbabwe has gone to the dogs and has been plunged into horrendous violence on Mbeki’s watch.

Zimbabwe’s Movement for Democratic Change leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, has accused President Thabo Mbeki of “complicity” and secretly conniving to perpetuate Robert Mugabe’s rule.

In an extraordinary attack on the South African President, whom regional leaders last year appointed mediator in the Zimbabwe crisis, Tsvangirai warned that “there will be no country left” if Mbeki was allowed to continue in the role.

The Sunday Times is in possession of the explosive letter dated May 13 that was delivered via official channels.

In it, Tsvangirai tells Mbeki: “The MDC sees your role as mediator as neither appropriate nor effective.”

He accuses Mbeki of:

# Lacking neutrality;

# Dividing the MDC;

# Blocking United Nations discussions on Zimbabwe;

# Helping Mugabe’s government acquire weapons;

# Suppressing the Khampepe-Moseneke Report on the 2002 Zimbabwe elections, which means Mbeki has no “moral claim to mediate a state of affairs at which he has, in secret, connived”; and

# Breaching the principles of mediation by showing a lack of respect for the MDC.

News of the letter comes as Zimbabwe gears up for the June 27 presidential runoff election between Tsvangirai and Mugabe, and as the Zanu-PF militia and security forces intensify their crackdown on opposition supporters.

“Not only have you been unable to denounce the well-documented post-election attacks on our people, but your government even played a role in Zimbabwean government procurement of weapons of repression (tear gas and batons, for example) and agreed to allow passage of arms of war purchased by the same government through South African territory during the troubled post-election period,” says Tsvangirai.

He points out that when Mbeki started mediating in Zimbabwe, “the country still had a functioning economy”.

“Millions of citizens had not fled to other countries to escape political and economic crisis and thousands had not died by impoverishment and disease.”

He says that since the March 29 elections, “Zimbabwe has plunged into horrendous violence while you have been mediating. With respect, if we continue like this, there will be no country left.”

Tsvangirai’s letter came as another letter — allegedly written by Mbeki to US President George Bush — surfaced in which Mbeki is said to tell Bush to “butt out” of Zimbabwe.

Presidential spokesman Mukoni Ratshitanga yesterday told the Sunday Times that “neither Tsvangirai nor the MDC leadership had written a letter of (that) kind to Mbeki.

“We are concerned that there are people who seem to be ready to peddle lies about the mediation process and a range of other issues,” he said.

However, senior MDC leaders said they were in possession of a receipt of delivery.

In yet another indication that Mugabe will still not accept defeat, the government mouthpiece The Herald quoted army chief of staff Major-General Martin Chedondo urging soldiers to vote for Mugabe.

“Soldiers are not apolitical. Only mercenaries are apolitical. We have signed and agreed to fight and protect the ruling party’s principles of defending the revolution ... If you have other thoughts, then you should remove that uniform.”

Mugabe’s wife, Grace, was also reported as telling Zanu-PF followers that the MDC would not be allowed to take power.

“Even if people vote for the MDC, Morgan Tsvangirai will never set foot inside State House,” she said.

Tsvangirai’s letter also reveals how he handed Mbeki copies of secret documents outlining a decision by the Zimbabwean government to deploy soldiers, war veterans and militia in a violent campaign.

“You expressed deep concern and suggested you would convene a meeting between myself and Mr Mugabe before the SADC summit (in April). I travelled to South Africa and waited for a full day for this meeting ... No one from your office ever contacted me.”

He says the MDC remains “fully committed to SADC’s critical role in Zimbabwe and has no problem with South Africa’s participation in mediation efforts”.

Rather, “it is your own involvement as exclusive mediator to which we take exception”.

He adds: “When the MDC attempted to appeal to the UN Security Council to investigate and help stop the carnage, it was you, the so called neutral mediator, who blocked a possible road to a resolution of the crisis.”

The MDC says Mbeki’s infamous “no-crisis” appearance on television with Mugabe was the last straw.

“Following this comment and others you made to SADC heads of state, it became clear to the MDC executive that it must urgently review (our) relationship with you and your role in the mediation.”

Mbeki is further accused of trying to split the MDC by talking to other party leaders behind Tsvangirai’s back.

“As a leader, whilst you may not have respect for me as a person, I can only ask you to respect the position that I hold, which position and responsibility has been endorsed by the majority of Zimbabweans, who voted for me,” Tsvangirai says.


The Sunday Times
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Oneword For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Pietro (1st June 2008), Shebeen (19th June 2008)
The Following 2 Users Agrees With Oneword On This Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Pietro (1st June 2008)
  #85  
Old 1st June 2008, 02:11 PM
Oneword's Avatar
Oneword Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bensalem
Posts: 1,367
Thanks: 601
Thanked 1,441 Times in 683 Posts
Images: 338
Blog Entries: 15
In Agreement: 276
In Agreement With 248 Times in 183 Posts
Credits: 479,658
Exclamation OCR transcript of Morgan Tsvangirai's letter to Mbeki

PRIVILEGED, PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL

13 May 2008

The Honourable Thabo Mbeki

President of the Republic of South Africa, Pretoria

Dear President Mbeki

On behalf of the National Executive of MDC and millions of voter betrayed by Zimbabwe's chronic election disasters, I am writing to respectfully request, once again, that you recuse yourself from your role as exclusive mediator of our nation's crisis .

You will recall that on 8 April, as we peacefully and patiently waited for results to be announced by ZEC -- although we knew the result -- a document was brought to my attention by sympathizers in the Zimbabwe military establishment. This document showed that a decision had been taken by the Zimbabwean government to deploy military, war veterans and militia in a violent campaign against supporters of MDC. This operation has now resulted in many of our supporters being beaten, maimed and killed.

I immediately alerted the SADC leadership including you of these developments. As you know, it is this information that precipitated the Extraordinary SADC Summit on 12 April.

Two days before this meeting I met with Your Excellency in one of the few time we met face to face. (You will recall that the first time I held a private meeting you in five years was in December 2007). On 10 April I gave you copies of the documents, and briefed you fully about the destabilizing and violent plans of the Zimbabwean security forces. You expressed deep concern and suggested you would convene a meeting between myself and Mr. Mugabe before the SADC Summit. I traveled to South Africa and waited for a full day for this meeting that you said you would set up. No one from your office ever contacted me.

In view of continual mixed messages about your role, I feel in the next few pages I must explicitly outline several of the key reasons that the MDC again kindly requests that you no longer serve as the exclusive mediator for the Zimbabwe crisis.

Lack of confidence in your neutrality

Your lack of neutrality became increasingly evident when I arrived to the Lusaka Summit to see you and Mr. Mugabe on television together proclaiming there is "no crisis' in Zimbabwe. The fact you made this inexplicable comment after a meeting I learned about only on television, naturally alarmed both me and MDC's National Executive, given what you knew. Following this comment. and others you made to SADC Heads of State, it became clear to MDC's National Executive that it must urgently review our relationship with you and your role in the mediation.

May I respectfully mention that when you started mediating, Zimbabwe still had a functioning economy, millions of our citizens had not fled to other countries to escape political and economic crisis, and tens of thousands had not yet died from impoverishment and disease. In fact, since the 29 March election, Zimbabwe has plunged into horrendous violence while you have been mediating. With respect, if we continue like this, there will be no country left.

Not only have you been unable to denounce the well-documented post-election attacks on our people, but your government even played a role in Zimbabwean government procurement of weapons of repression (tear gas and batons, for example) and agreed to allow passage of arm of war purchased by the same government through South African territory during the troubled post-election period.

Attempting to intervene in the internal affairs of our party

We made it clear to Ms. Mojanku Gumbi and Minister Sydney Mufamadi that MDC was no longer willing to participate in any initiative in any form or shape under your mediation. At one point, we were forced to formally communicate this in writing to Ms. Gumbi. It is therefore with considerable disappointment that I later learned that you have continued to make representations in meetings and to the media that you are the mediator and that you are in discussions with MDC and ZANU-PF.

I do not understand how this can be so when I personally communicated our position. Most recently, Isaac Maposa of the Zimbabwe Institute came to see me saying that he had been sent to try to set up a discussion between you and me with respect to mediation. I told Mr. Maposa to convey to you that the position taken by MDC's National Executive with respect to your role in the mediation had not changed.

A few days later, it was suggested that you were again in contact with a member of my National Executive, Secretary-General Mr. Tendai Biti. This interaction is reminiscent of that which happened prior to the break up of the MDC in October 2005. I respectfully submit to you that such "private" meetings contributed to the misunderstanding that later led to a split in our organization. I urge in the future if there is any matter that requires my attention, that you please communicate with me directly, unless it has been otherwise arranged in writing.

Blocking United Nation Security Council discussions on Zimbabwe

As you know, when MDC attempted to appeal to the United Nations Security Council to investigate and help stop the carnage, it was you, the so-called "neutral" mediator, who blocked a possible road to resolution of the crisis. Given your role as formal mediator, South Africa should have recused itself from this discussion. Another principle of mediation is that a mediator cannot publicly defend or endorse the position of one side or the other, which South Africa did at the United Nations.

Ignoring and suppressing the Khampepe Report on the 2002 elections

At the time of writing, I have just been made aware (of) a further development that would seem to incontrovertibly compromise your perceived neutrality. If it is true that you both ignored and suppressed the detailed 2002 election report written by judges Sisi Khampepe and Dikgang Moseneke, then you certainly must stand down with immediate effect. I will quote the words of Jeremy Gauntlett who led MDC's 2002 Presidential Election challenge, "there can be no good reason to keep secret the Khampepe-Moseneke report. By doing so Mbeki implicitly confirms what it must contain and that he has no moral claim to mediate a state of affairs at which he has, in secret, connived."

With regard to the above report, I have not yet had time to investigate the matter but given the gravity of the allegation, I believe it is your responsibility to immediately and publicly explain to the Zimbabwean people any perceived complicity in perpetuating Mr. Mugabe's rule in 2002. We will follow up with you on this matter in due course.

Breaching the principle of mediation

It is a universally accepted principle that in a mediation between two parties if one party does not have confidence in the mediator -- irrespective of qualification, level of knowledge or perceived sense of success -- that mediator must stand down. This is what you did in a similar situation in the Cote d'Ivoire mediation.

I am aware that MDC's decision regarding your role in the mediation was brought directly to your attention. Once I had formally advised the Chairman of SADC of our decision, as it is this body that appointed you mediator, we then held a press conference at which I publicly announced the same message - that the crisis now required a new mediator.

Please note, irrespective of the fact that we kindly request you to please stand down immediately as mediator, MDC, of course, still considers South Africa a vitally important neighbour and member of SADC. We remain fully committed to SADC's critical role and have no problem with South Africa's participation in mediation efforts. It is your own involvement a exclusive mediator to which we take exception.

In closing, as our people continue to die in post-election violence, as the Zimbabwe Election Commission still refuses to announce a runoff election date, and as our economy continues to drive the Zimbabwean people into poverty and despair, I am writing to once again respectfully inform you that MDC sees your role as mediator as neither appropriate nor effective. As a leader, whilst you may not have respect for me as a person, I can only ask you to respect the position that I hold, which position and responsibility has been endorsed by the majority of Zimbabweans who voted for me.


Signed
Morgan Tsvangirai
PRESIDENT
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Oneword For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Pietro (1st June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008), Shebeen (1st June 2008)
The Following 2 Users Agrees With Oneword On This Post:
Pietro (1st June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008)
  #86  
Old 1st June 2008, 02:23 PM
juikk's Avatar
juikk Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,110
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 443 Times in 246 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
In Agreement: 367
In Agreement With 193 Times in 120 Posts
Credits: 18,356
Unhappy Re: OCR transcript of Morgan Tsvangirai's letter to Mbeki

It seems this Zimugabe is 'mighty' human rights violator, because people like Mbeki and reportedly our SWAPO seniors are backing him up. I always say one man can never achieve such misery all by himself unless there was evil help that keeps in power....just wonder to what means, this is really destroying the Zimbabweans, to the point they flee to other countries to seek for a solution, only to fall victim to Xenophobic attacks from South Africans.......this should really not be allowed to continue....if Africans do not strive to solve the demise of these people, I will not blame the Bushes of this world getting involved anyway.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to juikk For This Useful Post:
Shebeen (1st June 2008)
The Following 2 Users Agrees With juikk On This Post:
Pietro (1st June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008)
  #87  
Old 1st June 2008, 02:43 PM
Pietro's Avatar
Pietro Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Katutura
Posts: 573
Thanks: 325
Thanked 480 Times in 265 Posts
Images: 2
In Agreement: 141
In Agreement With 81 Times in 62 Posts
Credits: 16,585
Default Re: OCR transcript of Morgan Tsvangirai's letter to Mbeki

The Afrokaans-speaking people call this: "'n twee-gat jakkals"!!!! Mbeki, look in a mirror; all you see is the second-most evil man in SADC/Southern Africa!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pietro For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008), Shebeen (1st June 2008)
The Following 2 Users Agrees With Pietro On This Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008)
  #88  
Old 1st June 2008, 02:48 PM
Pietro's Avatar
Pietro Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Katutura
Posts: 573
Thanks: 325
Thanked 480 Times in 265 Posts
Images: 2
In Agreement: 141
In Agreement With 81 Times in 62 Posts
Credits: 16,585
Default Re: Tsvangirai’s explosive letter to Mbeki

Mbeki does not want a cracker; he wants a solid crack to his head!!!! Maybe one can knock some sense into him that way!!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pietro For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Shebeen (19th June 2008)
  #89  
Old 1st June 2008, 07:59 PM
Poli's Avatar
Poli Offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Windhoek
Posts: 65
Thanks: 37
Thanked 44 Times in 21 Posts
Blog Entries: 11
In Agreement: 42
In Agreement With 20 Times in 15 Posts
Credits: 1,717
Default Re: OCR transcript of Morgan Tsvangirai's letter to Mbeki

Oneword, did you retype that? You can't download it from the Sunday Times; only read it!

Very nice.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Poli For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Oneword (1st June 2008), Shebeen (1st June 2008)
  #90  
Old 1st June 2008, 08:06 PM
Oneword's Avatar
Oneword Offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bensalem
Posts: 1,367
Thanks: 601
Thanked 1,441 Times in 683 Posts
Images: 338
Blog Entries: 15
In Agreement: 276
In Agreement With 248 Times in 183 Posts
Credits: 479,658
Default Re: OCR transcript of Morgan Tsvangirai's letter to Mbeki

OCR = Optical Character Recognition. It means I printed the pdf and then ran it through the scanner, corrected it and published it.

Happy?
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Oneword For This Useful Post:
juikk (1st June 2008), Pietro (3rd June 2008), Poli (1st June 2008), Shebeen (1st June 2008)
The Following User Agrees With Oneword On This Post:
Pietro (3rd June 2008)
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
afrol news, al-qaida, arrest, cards, comment, crisis, detention, election, election runoff, elections, goche, heroes, heroines, ideology, joke, letter, lupane, mbeki, mdc, money, mubabe, mugabe, ngos, obama, police, pull-out, rally, runoff, sadc, sibanda, south africa, suspension, terror, tsvangirai, tutu, violence, war veterans, zanu-pf, zbc, zimbabwe

Thread Tools


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.theshebeen.org/news-politics/5226-zimbabwe-situation.html
Posted By For Type Date
Namibia This thread Refback 3rd April 2008 01:35 PM
Namibia This thread Refback 2nd April 2008 12:52 PM
Namibia This thread Refback 1st April 2008 09:54 PM
Namibia This thread Refback 1st April 2008 08:50 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Statement by CARE International on the Situation in Zimbabwe Oneword Speeches + Statements 0 5th June 2008 06:31 AM
ZIMBABWE: Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe statement on the cash situation and stabilisation Shebeen Press Releases 0 17th January 2008 01:57 PM


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:25 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
(c) TheShebeen 2008Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design