Veterans helping Veterans

[Oneword]

Maybe, juikk, maybe......


But these are the people who killed our brothers and sisters when we were struggling to get our freedom ........

[juikk]

Oneword, keeping in mind that our brothers and sisters were killed by 1. ordinary civillians, 2. the dudes under discussion, because someone had to do the job, if I recall it was kind of mandatory for young guys to join the army(also keep in mind it was times we were forced to do what the master wanted), and mind you 3. also the people who we were suppose to join in the struggle, also got to kill some of our own brothers and sisters(Lubango,etc)....
So the question is, is the contest now about who the better killers were? Or which the more important lifes were? Should it not be rather that those who parished, we equally value their lives, irrespective of wheter they died on 1. Venters Farm somewhere in Omaheke, 2. Piets shop somewhere in Karibib, 3. the battle field somewhere up north, the 4. Oulakasie scenario, or 5. the dungeons of Lubango? If we are required to forgive and reconcile with the Apartheid regime masters, and are today proud to have friends & business associates from that faction(especially the politicians who almost want to take all the credit alone for a struggle that was indeed centuries old and was intensified toward the end by SWAPO and the Peoples effort), why are we so hard on the Guys who were forced by these business assoicates and friends we acquired in an independent Namibia, and not to forget had to feed famalies with earned proceeds(remember a good number of jobs were reserved for the whites) ?
Remember, some of us, whose parents also sacrificed for this country and with their sweat & blood, the infrastructure was put in place that the politicians came back from battle field to to manage in the name of Government, do not only recognize the political front, but look at the liberation struggle in a wholestic approach. Remember, a mass that was enslaved, had no means of reporting all heroic deeds, so just because some people were silinced do not make them lessor heroes than the ex-combatants and those who at least received some recognition....

The People of Namibia, irrespective of color or creed, including SWATF, SWAPO & the Lubango criminals,those who slaved on farms and cities/towns of Namibia under harse conditions, DTA, Those who were excecuting belonging and believing tot he Opressors ideals, Those who did not see themselves as fighting on any of the two sides and fleed to Europe, America, etc.......the list is endless

Bottomline, it was pre-independence, everyone had a role to play, forced or otherwise....so let us put ourselves in everyones shoes if we are to be fair.....understanding and tolerance for other's suffering may result from this

[juikk]

Originally Posted by Tuhafeni

Nice idea provided it is done in a peacefully maner and not to be associated to today's story of death threat.

I think the war veteran bill is fare, becuase it won't be fare for ex-SWATF to receive the same allowance with other as they were paid a monthly salaries during their time and the were againist the independence of this country. They should say thank that this happen during the new testament, where there is a reconcilation left by Jesus otherwise Satan still the enemy of God and I wonder if he will one day sing as an angle again.

Tuhafeni, it was peanuts for putting their lives at risk and this being forced in most instances, so I'd say it may or may not be fair, but a given 'soldier' at that time, may have been this really intelligent dude who, under normal circumstances may have wanted to become a seasoned accountant for example....I'd say they also suffered some form of loss of income, wouldn't you? Anyway, aren't they trying to do something for themselves, and not expecting from the Government(e.g. being included in bills)? jux saying

[Oneword]

juikk,

You are an excellent mediator. What you say does make a whole lot of sense. While I am NOT withdrawing the remarks I made, I am willing to accede to your request and accept that each side had a role to play.

I am prepared to let the matter rest and will not comment unduly in future.


Fair?

[mindfactory]

Congratulations !!! Great job !!!

Its about time that somebody somewhere use the opportunity of freedom of speech and freedom of association. This is just the right place.

Great thing to keep politics out of it, this is history indeed. These proud, brave son's of Namibia should be honoured, for they have performed excellent. Forged in battle.

I still remember vividly the last fling. On the eve of the cease-fire, SWAPO launched a last ditch raid. At night, some 300 swapo combatants sneaked into South West Africa in blatant disregard of UN directives and soldiers. As the South African soldiers were confined to barracks, the SWAPOs took on and achieved several objectives. A climate of insecurity prevailed until the rebels were flushed out by the 101st SWATF Battalion (Ovambo Battalion) and Koevoet (SWAPolice) which had to be reactivated for the occasion. No fewer than 289 swapo rebels had been killed when the sweep ended on 29 April.

Still then, the international world were behind the communist backed swapo's. Any rate, we were there. We were armed soldiers who fight against the heroes.

Here is some stuff, almost forgotten ... real live experience ... no politic shit or crap ... on the job ... take a look at it now. YouTube - Koevoet (Green Boots)

Do not believe all shit which swapo paint today, those guys did not make it into the sawpo parliament, they pay the highest price a soldier dream to pay, the ultimate price. I were badly wounded to, were for more then 12 months in hospital, recovered and went back to the job, where I served for more then 10 years.

Good luck !!!

[Oneword]

Mindfactory,

You are making the whole exercise of juikk into nothing but a cheap farce.

She called for reconciliation despite differing points of view; you go and crow like a self-important rooster on dung heap about some or other perceived pointless "victory". You say we should keep politics out of it and in the very next sentence you plunge full-steam into it!


If you can call the willful act of taking another person's life by force just another "job"...... then, dear mindfactory, you are to be pitied indeed!


Shame on you!


That is NOT playing the game and answers like these are the ones that cause more and more acrimony rather than the opposite.

[Shebeen]

While Shebeen respects mindfactory's and the koevoet-swatf association's right to present its "version" of history and views in our community, I would urge them to desist from using inflammatory language and labelling people and organisations in an unecessarily confrontational way. I also do not necessarily agree with them but respect your right to express them. The pictures were removed because of their grpahic nature.

However, be reminded that when you joined this community, you agreed to the rules, so stick to them. This applies to all Shebeeners. If you need to be reminded of them, click here.

If the intention of your contributions is to be provocative for the sake of being provocative and showing Shebeeners that you don't agree with their opinions then I will not take the bait and censor the material. If your intention is to contribute to a serious discussion, then feel free to do so. We are all grown-up people, so let us behave like grown-ups.

Whether SWAPO was a terrorist organisation or a liberation movement fighting for the freedom of Namibians depends on which side of the fence you sit. Similarly, whether South Africa was a racist regime that was denying Namibia freedom and democracy or a bulkwark against communism is also a matter of interpretation.

What is pretty clear is the brutal atrocities were committed by ALL sides in this protracted conflict, in which individuals on both sides paid the utlimate price for what they believed in.

As Namibians we need to leave that part of our nation's history behind us and move forward TOGETHER. Not doing so would dishonour ALL the individuals who lost their lives in this painful period of our nation's history, and it would render all the suffering experienced by so many people in our region completely meaningless.

That certainly does not mean that we need to subscribe to one collective view of history. It also does not mean we should never raise controverisal topics and stand up for what we believe in, however painful it may be.

But there are simply too many challenges and problems that we face as a community NOW, and wasting energy about which version of the past is right or wrong, good or bad is not productive. Let us put that part of our history to rest and move forward mindful of our differences. We not only owe it to ourselves, but the fallen and the future generations. That is a big responsibility, so let us rise to it.

[The Chef]

Cook a nice meal, gather friends and family, have a bottle of wine and relax - that's my recipe for this most serious topic. Anyway, not a politician but life is to be lived.

[Pietro]

Why do the words "fire" and "frying pan" keep on repeating in what counts for my mind?????????????????????????????

[juikk]

Originally Posted by Pietro

Why do the words "fire" and "frying pan" keep on repeating in what counts for my mind?????????????????????????????

LOL!! seriously Pietro, you are one of a kind, I must concede....